if you don't PoS mining, i don't want to talk with you about it it's not stabilized, it just GO UP PRICE TICKET
Dude, if someone else with that much of money other than the devs that pump them in at the price now, what can you possibly say? That "if you don't PoS mining, I don't want to talk with you about it" sounds like some 8 years old kid fighting with his friend. End of the day, does it really affect you that much that you must scream everywhere and call for attention?
Honestly I can't follow what exactly he's trying to say due to the broken English, but I figure what I can do is break things down with an example using fake smaller coin amounts in the correct proportions to make the math easy. Assume there were only 100 coins total in existence at launch time. As is well known, 50% of those coins were dev coins and 50% were given to the community. Also, we know that an additional 7.3% of those coins has since been created through mining to the current date. Thus, let's round that off to 7 more coins. That means there are a total of 107 coins. So, that means the dev proportion of total coins would be 50/107 = ~47% and the community proportion would be 57/107 = ~53%. Yes, I'm leaving out stake rewards here to simplify things, but the principle does not change at all, only the numbers. Now, we also know that there are 42,235 tickets in the pool right now. So, what the devs agreed to is to not stake more than their proportion. That means, the devs will throttle their ticket purchases to be 47% of the pool. In other words, they will not purchase more than 42,235 * .47 = 19,850 tickets. That means the community would necessarily have 42,235 * .53 ~= 22,385 tickets. If the pool only had a total of 22,000 tickets, then it would breakdown to the devs not purchasing more than 22,000 * .47 = 10,340 tickets while the community would then necessarily have 22,000 * .53 = 11,660 tickets. This system is completely fair for the community (actually it's even slightly in the community's favor) as it means the devs are not overstaking and it ensures the community has a slightly greater than equal share during the early days. Over time, the proportion of dev coins versus total coins is going to continue to decline and it will eventually be an insignificant fraction of the total and so it won't even matter anymore.
I'm staking my Decred. - Want to talk with me about it then? ^ I don't have a problem with Devs buying high. That just means that they don't have Decred to buy, when price drops. (Since 256 blocks = around 21 hours, and there's 10 - 11 hours between adjustments.) - Which then means, that people with less coins, get a chance to buy there, without someone dropping 5.000 Decreds on tickets, while price is low. I don't see the outrage here. But then again. My way of thinking, is in the long run. Not short term gains.
The reason the price keeps jumping up is that it drops down too much. The reason it drops down too much is that no-one is staking at the high prices. Dev's staking at high prices should lesson the drop afterwards, which should reduce the number of people staking a the bottom which should then limit the next spike.
I'm not sure it was clear from the previous posts: As the devs joined in voting/staking, if all else remains the same (the count of community voters), obviously the ticket price will go up. At the very start of staking, all tickets were owned by the community, and a bunch of them were bought at the starting price of 2 DCR. There's nothing abnormal about any of this, pretty much as it was explained well before the network had gone live. For an increasing number of voters, since the pool size is fixed/capped, the price will always tend upwards, and each person will be holding a smaller number of tickets (over time). Tickets would already be at 3x or 5x the current price, if all airdrop participants were staking... And finally, strictly from an economical standpoint: On average, each ticket get's picked to vote at around 1 month. So if you "bought" a ticket at about 18 DCR, and for the current block reward, on average, you'll expect to earn 10% a month (1.8 DCR). This is quite reasonable (meaning, profitable...). Even if the ticket price was higher, it would still be a meaningful return. I'd be happier if the developers were not staking, as this would accelerate the dilution of their overall economical weight in DCR. It would mean that a larger 'piece of the voting pie' was going towards the community (myself an interested party ofc). but The reality is that the terms were clearly laid out from the start. The developers have stuck to their word so far, and there's absolutely nothing wrong in having the developers claiming a portion of the voting power. Cheers!
This is utterly incorrect Kandiru. People are staking at all times. We have a poolsize with over 40K live tickets, and only 5 tickets get to vote on each block. Prices are going up simply because more people are buying/renewing tickets after they vote, and because more people are getting into voting (to a large extent, the "more people" in this sentence, stands for the developers at this particular time). Low priced tickets, are voting as well. I have a large bunch of tickets that I bought at 2 DCR early on, and most of them have not staked yet. You need to go through the documentation again and make yourself familiar with how staking/voting works on Decred - which is completely distinct from all the traditional PoS altcoins.
Sorry, perhaps I was unclear with my language. When I said "no-one is staking at high price" I meant buying new tickets. If you look at the new blocks being mined, when the price drops you get 20 new stake / block. (Pool +15/block) When the price is high, we get 0-3 new stake / block. (Pool -0-5/block) Looks at https://dcrstats.com/ and look at the staking price. If you look at fresh stakes / block during the high and low price periods, it's quite clear what's going on.
Oh, understood, that does make more sense now But that's only natural, right? I mean, certainly a bunch of people will stop buying tickets if price goes above 5, a bunch more will stop if price goes above 10, and so on... Edit: Each person will have their own personal and completely arbitrary value at which they believe tickets are "expensive", as opposed to being "cheap". Diversity of opinions is certainly to be expected. It's rather early to expect any sort of stability in this respect. Heck, 65% (or something in that region) of unspent airdrop coins! If all these people were voting, the current voters would have half the number of tickets, and price would be double what it is. It's just the economics of it. I think we all need to get cozy to the idea that tickets will eventually go for 20, 30, maybe more. Remember that tickets will someday allow one to express a vote in critical areas of development and concerning the future for Decred. This is both a privilege (because your opinion will count), and a commitment (because you will lock some significant amount of coins to maintain your right to vote). Good things, I think.
Actually, this is an amazing return. At 10% per month, we're talking about 120% per year (not even including compounding) with practically no risk. I can't think of any other other type of investment that has a risk/reward ratio even close to this. Even if the price went up to 180 DCR you'd still get a non-compounding return of 12% p.a. The only other type of investment that offers a similar risk profile (i.e. very low) is a term deposit and where I am (Australia) they're only paying 2-3% p.a. For comparison, the ticket price would need to be 1058.82 DCR for the same return. And of course, there is the benefit of helping shape the future of Decred.[/QUOTE]
Please don`t get me wrong people, but we have a whale with purchase power holding allways the ~half of available tickets -no matter what- and we have the small amounts of purchase power scattered over the whole community stakeholders. These small stakeholders aren`t capable of competing against the whale and now forced to sink or swim. What we saw on that parabolically ticket prices was, that pricing of the market wasn`t yet met. Now we have the peak sorting out the long-winded from the short-winded. On the long term you are not able to hold up unless you spend your fiat or invest in PoW, which also is is an additional vector you can count on from the devs side. Funny to see those ticket rushes. For the last blocks i dont see any fresh stakes. So this will be a very weird behaviour if it keeps like this. And it definitive should not be like this! It`s an 2 party market with changing purchase power peakings. Sick stuff... And of course it hurts, $60 for one ticket with $4 reward per month is not worth a discussion. I can go on the streets collecting deposit bottles and make more profit in one hour. This is only interesting as long as the profit comes without the need of an investtment. But the airdrop was for free, as long as it works out, keep on! You depend now from the arbitrariness which isn`t in your arbitration. On the other hand, this is just an experiment and what future brings, nobody of us is able to tell. We are ALL hoping the best, but having such an aggressive stakeholder arise on the market is not what promotes a wider implementation of the currency and sustainability. We play the game until we are sorted out. Still the hope of a boom or inflation stays. That will benefit the early-birds but still depends on a wider acceptance, which i dont see is given until a later point where shares are spread more widely and scarcity of finite coin availability comes into question more. Who will be the first millionaire on a new arrising of a cryptocurrency, if there will be anyone at all, is allways without a question. Thats why you create an altcoin, aren`t you? We all keep staking with a smile on our face, aren`t we? The title of this threat is a joke, isn`t it?
I don't think the thread title was intended as a joke, but it's a bit humorous to look back on given present ticket prices. I think the Bitcoin equivalent of Millionaires is the 21+ Club: people who have accumulated at least 21 Bitcoins (or other coin limited to 21M capacity.)
It's very interesting indeed... With 30+ DCR per ticket, and ticket prices climbing, I'm wondering if were in for a very big rally.
Also the jump in Decred value. Seems to be hovering around 600k. I believe it may be because a larger amount of people have the ability to PoS lock their coins, meaning there are less Decred on markets, plus how much it now takes to stake. Great for miners.
Plus the fact that DCR is still relatively cheap to purchase with fiat at ~$2.50, even tho the ticket prices are so high right now. Wouldn't be surprised if prices climbed to $5.00/DCR in a couple of days.
Great to read through the comments on this thread. It truly seems that I picked the right community. As for the price discussion, this thread was started in the 'early' days when tickets were just 2 DCR. It seems that the OP didn't realise what was coming... I agree with @Shadowlance @ClokworkGremlin and @karamble that staking is incredibly profitable right now. Future Predictions: assuming that Decred is here to stay, I expect that the annual return on investment (ROI) of staking will eventually approach the ROI in stock markets. If the currency gets widely adopted we will see an enormous increase of owners who don't have access to (or knowledge of) mining equipment. The logical choice is to start staking, as long as it is more profitable than other investments. With the introduction of GUI wallets and multiple stake pools, staking will be available for everyone. This will ultimately lead to a much lower ROI (but not lower than other ROIs). Also, keep in mind that votes will become crucial in the future. For example, look at the blocksize discussion within the bitcoin community. Suppose bitcoin had a similar PoW/PoS system, large staking pools could decide to vote 0 or 1 depending on their stance in the debate. Community members could choose to join the pools that represent them best. I imagine that this is what the Constitution means with "community-based governance". Whatever happens, the direction of Decred will always be approved by the majority of the community.