Experiment - Low Price

Discussion in 'Proof-of-stake Mining' started by Ayush, Apr 28, 2016.

  1. 2017/12/15 - Decred v1.1.2 released! → Release Notes  → Downloads
  1. Ayush

    Ayush Full Member
    Advocate (Facebook)

    Jan 9, 2016
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    Guys I was just wondering how low the price of the tickets can go.
    If most of us agree to not buy any tickets for the period of the next few days then we all might be able to check out on how low the prices can go and also get tickets for low price.
    Only issue here is that everyone must not buy ticket.

    Aren't you guys interested in getting tickets for a lower price than say 8dcr ?
    Why not try this once?
    Anyone with me?
     
  2. MarSas

    MarSas New Member

    Feb 12, 2016
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    One thing is certain, the price cannot be negative :)
     
  3. LastNinja

    LastNinja Full Member

    Dec 31, 2015
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    You mean there won't be NIRP in cryptoland? I am shocked! Let's stick to the USD based fiat ponzi which now pays you "money" for taking out loans.
     
  4. Dyrk

    Dyrk Sr. Member
    Developer

    Jan 7, 2016
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    Minimum ticket price is 2 dcr. It is hardcoded in mainnet params.
    Starting from block 1 and up to block 4896 price was always 2dcr and pool was less then 42000 tickets.
     
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  5. Tivra

    Tivra Member
    Advocate (BitcoinTalk)

    Dec 30, 2015
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    #5 Tivra, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    ClokworkGremlin likes this.
  6. BoMBeR

    BoMBeR New Member

    Jan 17, 2016
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    So true! I really should buy more decred before the 10-16dcr tickets disappear. These spikes are so crazy and not affordable on the high end for me LOL.
     
    Tivra likes this.
  7. phzi

    phzi New Member

    Apr 15, 2016
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    I can't believe how many people are buying tickets right now, when the next period will almost certainly be lower. Buying tickets in the current epoch is only working to increase the ticket price in the following epoch. Some people seem to have no sense about when to buy PoS tickets.

    I partly blame dcrstat's very stupid "Time to buy PoS tickets" that shows whenever the current price is below the average. The average is stupidly high because of the wild swings and you're pretty clueless if you base buying opportunities on the average price.
     
  8. drunkenmugsy

    drunkenmugsy Sr. Member
    Advocate (Reddit)

    Dec 28, 2015
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    I think this may be based partly on the logic of buying at a higher price is better than not being able to buy at all in the frenzy of the last sub 10dcr round. Which is not stupid at all. This is how a market works. Everyone is free to buy and sell at whatever price they are comfortable with. You can choose to participate or not. Criticizing others strategy because it does not match or affects your own strategy is pointless and therefore stupid.
    Once everyone gets a handle on how to put in EXPIRE orders for ticket buys it is going to get even more crazy. Are you going to lose your txfee AND not get to buy a ticket because your ticketfee strategy didnt better someone elses strategy?
    Suddenly, buying at a little bit higher price for less fees, less hassle and, most importantly, less time spent does not seem so crazy does it.
     
    David, Johnshpon3 and Tivra like this.
  9. BoMBeR

    BoMBeR New Member

    Jan 17, 2016
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    Personally I like setting my price and having the wallet auto vote for me. I have my limit set at what i find affordable. If i get the extremely cheap tickets great if i get the average tickets im fine by that too. The --ticketmaxprice is probably my favorite feature :)
     
    ClokworkGremlin likes this.
  10. phzi

    phzi New Member

    Apr 15, 2016
    13
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    Non-echelon
    @drunkenmugsy

    it is provably stupid in the sense that PoS staking is obviously a for-profit venture, and staking at the current epoch is less profitable then waiting and paying a slightly higher fee so you can ensure you get tickets during the "frenzy," as you put it. Math is OP - you should try it. Also, criticizing a flawed strategy would be typically called constructive, not stupid.

    To answer your question, yes, it seems crazy to buy anytime but the lowest periods in a cycle, or toward the latter side of a mid-level-activity epoch when it's become clear that ticket price is going to increase.

    As for your other question... it doesn't make sense. You don't pay any txfee if your transaction doesn't get mined.

    @BoMBeR

    It's certainly the lazy way, anyway. I never auto-buy tickets because it's simply not optimal.
     
  11. zero

    zero Full Member

    Jan 1, 2016
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    #11 zero, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    In latest versions (v0.1.0 and v0.1.1) we pay very low "auto-consolidation to ticket cost" tx fees which are not returned, the reason is to prevent spending issues during ticket buying. The ticket fee is still returned if your ticket buy transaction won't get mined. You can find more about it in the forum.
     
  12. phzi

    phzi New Member

    Apr 15, 2016
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    Non-echelon
    @zero
    Why would anyone use the new transaction format tho?
     
  13. zero

    zero Full Member

    Jan 1, 2016
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    To be updated and there are good reasons to be updated.
     
  14. BoMBeR

    BoMBeR New Member

    Jan 17, 2016
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    @phzi It might not be optimal for you but it is for me. If ticket price goes down and I'm at work or somewhere I cant access my wallet than it is way more than optimal. Not to mention it is buying tickets at the price that I'm ok with. What is optimal? waiting for the lowest possible price just to find out that your ticket doesnt even get mined in time since other people also find that optimal. Having a wider range is better imo than waiting for the lowest possible ticket.
     
    Johnshpon3 likes this.
  15. phzi

    phzi New Member

    Apr 15, 2016
    13
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    Non-echelon
    You can stay updated and still trivially patch in the ability to buy non-consolidating tickets. I am running 0.1.1
     
  16. drunkenmugsy

    drunkenmugsy Sr. Member
    Advocate (Reddit)

    Dec 28, 2015
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    #16 drunkenmugsy, Apr 28, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
    Yes it is stupid to buy when something is plentiful and easy to get in very little time. Even if it costs a bit more. It is far better to wait and buy when something is scarce and difficult to get resulting in possibly not buying anything and spending time to do it. Totally stupid. I see your point master of OP maths. I grovel at your comically balloonish greymatter.

    As for the txfee in the new EXPIRE method there will be a txfee to make the initial purchase ticket and make it expire before the next price change. Allowing return of funds and re-submission with new ticketfee. If the initial purchase ticket does expire even without resulting in a ticket purchase there is a fee. DEVs please correct me if I am wrong.
     
  17. phzi

    phzi New Member

    Apr 15, 2016
    13
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    Optimal would be most profitable. So far, I've never had a ticket purchase not get mined during one of the low periods. As for being at work, it's fairly trivial to automate the process of determining if the current price will.be a low. I just think that relying on max ticket price alone is a very insufficient and provably less profitable method.

    Keep in mind, I have some custom patches built to ensure ticket purchasing is most effective. If you're basing your logic only on what the mainline client does, then you're missing opportunities.
     
  18. LastNinja

    LastNinja Full Member

    Dec 31, 2015
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    Maybe those people simply know how to calculate compounded interest...
     
  19. phzi

    phzi New Member

    Apr 15, 2016
    13
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    Non-echelon
    Waiting 1 epoch isn't going to impact the nominal interest rate near enough to offset the decreased tickets purchased. Pretty easy to do that math.
     
  20. LastNinja

    LastNinja Full Member

    Dec 31, 2015
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    So your investment strategy doesn't work because the other market participants are too stupid and all behave wrong? Too bad...
     

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