Geolocation Affects Voting?

Discussion in 'Proof-of-stake Mining' started by MiloIce, Sep 10, 2016.

  1. 2017/12/15 - Decred v1.1.2 released! → Release Notes  → Downloads
  1. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    I would like to know if geolocation affects voting?

    I currently holds 180 live tickets and voting per month is very little compared to a friend of mine with 70 tickets..

    for the past 10 days, his vote rate is 300% higher than mine.. Therefore I'm thinking if there are some priority given to some location?
     
  2. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    #2 chappjc, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  3. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    Meaning to say new bought tickets are more likely to get voted instead of old ones?
     
  4. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    #4 chappjc, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
    Yes Sorry, got mixed up about the issue.

    Edit 2: Ah, so what I think that I had in mind was the cumulative chance of a ticket being chosen before expiry at any point since it went live. This has a decay since the longer it is live, the fewer opportunities it has to vote (before expiry at 40960 blocks).
     
  5. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    hmm, may I know whats the reason that you designed it this way? I thought all tickets are supposed to have equal fairness in getting to vote? in this case, all our old tickets might have a possibility to never get called to vote right? How does this ensure fairness for holders with more tickets?
     
  6. Dyrk

    Dyrk Sr. Member
    Developer

    Jan 7, 2016
    518
    376
    Male
    Wonderland
    No :)

    The old ticket has more chances to expire, but it has the same chance to be chosen each specific block as every other ticket from the pool.
     
    chappjc likes this.
  7. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    Why would it has more chances to expire? Isn't it the same for all tickets? Do you happen to know what might affect the ticket from getting "Called" to vote?

    Thanks in advance =)
     
  8. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    #8 chappjc, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
    Yeah, sorry about that. I got mixed up about this somehow there.

    It's right that each live ticket has the same probability of getting picked on a given lottery .

    https://forum.decred.org/threads/time-for-ticket-expires.3916/#post-21642
    https://forum.decred.org/threads/understanding-of-proof-of-stake.180/page-3#post-4031

    Thanks for the correction. I'd hate to spread FUD. I think maybe I was thinking about the initial purchase rush before the ticket pool was at its current size. Hmm.

    As @davecgh said in the first linked post, you are buying a ticket to 40,960 lotteries (tickets expire after being live for 40960 blocks), with your ticket having the same probability of being picked as the other tickets in the pool at the time. But from block-to-block, the chance of your ticket being picked is thus based on the size of the ticket pool.
     
  9. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    #9 chappjc, Sep 10, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
    Think I just remembered what I was thinking about decay. At a given point in a ticket's life (birth = maturity, death = expiry 40960 blocks later), the chances of being picked before expiry decay with time (in blocks). This is intuitive, but the exponential shape of the curve perhaps is not. Like what @ceejep said here. Perhaps this is what @Dyrk meant by "chances to expire". Sorry again for any confusion.
     
    jy-p likes this.
  10. David

    David Sr. Member

    Jan 22, 2016
    364
    207
    Male
    USA
    The only other thing I could think of regarding your physical location is having a poor connection to the Decred network. This might be somewhere where internet bandwidths are considerably lower than the rest of the population, OR in a place with a low density of public Decred nodes. The majority of the public nodes are in the US and EU. If you are somewhere very far away from these centralized areas, you will most likely have a high latency connection to the Decred network and this would raise your chances of missing votes.

    Even in a remote area with a high latency connection, this won't affect the chances of your ticket being called by the core algorithms. As @chappjc and @Dyrk explained, all tickets should have the same chances at getting called regardless of how long you've had them. I too would question why my tickets weren't being called to vote... but it seems that in your case you've been unlucky for the past week and a half. I would verify that your PoS node(s) are online and unlocked 24/7, make sure your dcrd utility has the current best block, and then issue a "dcrctl rebroadcastmissed" command. Then check your stake info with dcrctl --wallet getstakeinfo to see if you've missed a high percentage of tickets. If you're using a stake pool, I don't believe there's very much you can really look at.
     
    MiloIce and chappjc like this.
  11. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    Yea, I'm in Singapore.. Not much nodes around me.. Anyway to fix that? As for network, I have no issues nor disconnects for the past 4 months.. and only missed 1 ticket though.. Just that it is not being voted as much as people who own lesser tickets than me.. Which makes it either really unlucky for me or something is really wrong..
     
  12. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    Just unlucky. Your connection does not influence if your ticket gets picked. Tickets are chosen in a deterministic manner based on the last block. This way all the nodes choose the same tickets without any communication, beyond knowledge of the last block.

    It is true that with a higher latency that you are more likely to miss a vote, but that does not seem to be the issue here. I suggest joining a stake pool to address this.
     
  13. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    If the latency was not the issue I'm facing, how does joining a stake pool address this?
     
  14. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    There's no addressing call to vote chances. But if you want to minimize your vote latency, a stake pool may be an option.
     
  15. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    Ah, okay. Thanks =)
     
  16. jy-p

    jy-p Sr. Member
    Organizer

    Jan 2, 2016
    133
    340
    Male
    You should be able to see missed votes in the logs by searching for "Revoked" and find the successfully voted ones by searching for "Voted". I have voting wallets in the US and the combined rate of missed and expired tickets is just below 2%. Note that you won't see expired tickets when testing yourself due to the 40960 block expiration, i.e. you must have been staking for over 40960 blocks to see expired tickets.

    The existing stake pools charge a roughly 5% fee, which means that if you're missing over 5% of your votes, it makes sense to use a stake pool from a purely economic perspective. It would be useful to know what miss rate you are seeing there in SG.
     
  17. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    Not including the compute resources you can save.

    And then there's the redundancy the pools offer. And you don't have to leave a wallet unlocked.
     
  18. jy-p

    jy-p Sr. Member
    Organizer

    Jan 2, 2016
    133
    340
    Male
    Yeah, that's what I was getting at with the qualification I made (purely economic). While the average stake miner may be able to get less than 5% of their votes missed, it is still a good idea to use a stake pool for the reasons you cite.

    As someone who runs their own voting wallets, I can testify to the fact that it definitely takes some work.
     
  19. MiloIce

    MiloIce Jr. Member

    Jan 18, 2016
    206
    26
    Male
    This is one of my rig with only 1 missed, going to be 3 months old..

    I had another one with 22 missed/revoked that is running since PoS started.. Both at same location but different network used..
    {
    "missed": 1,
    "proportionmissed": 0.0021691973969631237,
    "revoked": 1
    }

    Still better to run it on my own with this rate right? Since my PC is on 24/7 hmm.. I have 180 live tickets.. but over the span of a week, I average out to 2 votes daily.. while some with 60-70 live tickets are getting 3-5 daily after averaging out.. That is why I was thinking if geo location was affecting the rate of tickets being picked.. Since I'm not having missed/revoked issues for the first one at least..
     
  20. Johnshpon3

    Johnshpon3 Member

    Dec 25, 2015
    210
    86
    Male
    Telecommunications
    Slovenia
    I have an avarage 160-170 tickets live and 4-6 avarage votes per day. Min. was 2 and max. was 11, all time missed is 21 tickets -0.0179. I found it quite unbelievable that somebody with only 70 live tickets votes at same rate than you or me. That would be amazing rate of 'luck', it's possible but higly unusuall.
    People like to brag, the truth is somwhere in between. :rolleyes:

    P.S. My geolocation is central Europe with FTTH.
     
    jy-p likes this.

Share This Page