New Yorkers...

Discussion in 'Archive' started by Jonathan P., Jan 9, 2016.

  1. 2017/12/15 - Decred v1.1.2 released! → Release Notes  → Downloads
  1. Jonathan P.

    Jonathan P. New Member

    Unfortunately it appears we will not be able to be a part of this project as of now. Unless I am missing something, we are on the same level as an embargoed nation. I believe it is because of the NYS BitLicense. Perhaps an administrator or moderator could add more to this?
     
  2. Costin

    Costin Member
    Advocate (Twitter)

    Dec 28, 2015
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    JavaScript
    Liverpool
    Did you read the law? It doesn't look pretty good. I'm sorry. I'm a little busy and there are 50 pages but when I get home I'll read it.
     

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  3. Jonathan P.

    Jonathan P. New Member

    NYS regulations on Virtual Currency is a bitch in NY. Thank the Internet gods we have a few exchanges that allow us to deal with BTC.
     
  4. Jonathan P.

    Jonathan P. New Member

    Welp, best of luck to the rest of you! Sucks for us over here. Decred developers, please look into the BitLicense if you can, down the road obviously.
     
  5. tacotime

    tacotime Hero Member

    Dec 7, 2015
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    @jy-p will be able to provide input here. In short, NY requires a BitLicense from any entity (even a distributed hacker collective like Decred) that interacts with NY or any person in NY through something like an airdrop - even if it's free. A BitLicense would mean the project needs to know your name, physical address, and keep detailed records on almost everything you do with the coins you receive in the airdrop. The project is not about collecting that information - we want to hack on cool stuff and build things together. So unfortunately, NY is out when it comes to airdrop. NY is welcome in Decred, just not airdrop. You can acquire it, use it, and build on it just how you like.

    You can read an article by Marco Santori about BitLicense here if you would like to get an idea of what it's all about.
     
  6. Jonathan P.

    Jonathan P. New Member

    Thank you for the input ingsoc. I am pretty ashamed of the current state my state is in. I will still stay involved and perhaps after the drop I will be able to exchange BTC with somebody perhaps. I am well aware of the BitLicense and what it implies. I figured it was the reason behind the embargoed country or NY agreement. I think every New Yorker who's been involved with BTC is aware. A lot of places opted to simply leave NY altogether. I am not a fan at all of the BitLicense, but what can you do, it's the law for us saps.
     
  7. jy-p

    jy-p Sr. Member
    Organizer

    Jan 2, 2016
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    One of our project goals is to actively include people and encourage participation, but regulatory agencies like NYDFS have worked hard to make that remarkably difficult for cryptocurrencies in the state of New York. To quote the BitLicense, Section 200.2 (q) states

    "(q) Virtual Currency Business Activity means the conduct of any one of the following types of activities involving New York or a New York Resident:
    (1) receiving Virtual Currency for Transmission or Transmitting Virtual Currency, except where the transaction is undertaken for non-financial purposes and does not involve the transfer of more than a nominal amount of Virtual Currency;
    (2) storing, holding, or maintaining custody or control of Virtual Currency on behalf of others;
    (3) buying and selling Virtual Currency as a customer business;
    (4) performing Exchange Services as a customer business; or
    (5) controlling, administering, or issuing a Virtual Currency.​

    The development and dissemination of software in and of itself does not constitute Virtual Currency Business
    Activity."
    In the case of the airdrop, it is clear that none of (2), (3) or (4) are occurring. However, it could be argued that despite the coins being given away freely Decred falls under either (1) or (5), which then triggers compliance with the BitLicense via Section 200.3 (a)

    "(a) License required. No Person shall, without a license obtained from the superintendent as provided in this Part, engage in any Virtual Currency Business Activity. Licensees are not authorized to exercise fiduciary powers, as defined under Section 100 of the Banking Law."
    The requirements from a time, privacy, energy and money perspective to acquire a BitLicense would have slowed down Decred substantially. Plus we would be legally required to effectively spy on everyone in the airdrop if we were to obtain a BitLicense, meaning that complying with the NY regulations lead to everyone's privacy being substantially degraded.

    Regrettably, the Decred airdrop cannot include New York state residents.
     
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  8. Jonathan P.

    Jonathan P. New Member

    Yep, Welcome to NY!
     
  9. Freedom2Choose

    Freedom2Choose Full Member
    Designer

    Dec 17, 2015
    103
    118
    Designer
    USA
    As for #1 it depends on what nominal is I guess, but I bet they never define that.
    And for #5 does that mean just he resident in NY can not do those things or someone from outside the state can not do that to the resident?
     
  10. jy-p

    jy-p Sr. Member
    Organizer

    Jan 2, 2016
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    Male
    Yeah, the BitLicense seems to be intentionally crafted as a very broad document, and in the case of (1), it's 100% unclear as to whether the airdrop coins would be considered of "nominal value". It is not even clear if we could expect a timely or authoritative response from NYDFS if this question was asked.

    As for (5), the text states "activities involving New York or a New York Resident", so despite none of these activities occurring inside the state of New York, a New York resident receiving coins from the airdrop would likely trigger this section.

    In my opinion, the goal of the BitLicense is pretty clear: it is a very intentional and heavy-handed body of regulation intended to protect vested interests, e.g. commercial/investment banks and the FRB, in the (current) financial capital of the US. I am truly surprised that this kind of regulation is possible without it passing through the usual channels for state laws in the US, e.g. proposed in NY state congress or senate, voted on by congress and senate separately, then signed into law or vetoed by the governor.
     
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  11. nat

    nat New Member

    Jan 4, 2016
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    sysadmin
    NYC
    Yeah I'd bet the rent that no response would be given to such an inquiry. This is so fucking typical in a city-state currently being rebuilt for the global ruling class...
     
    jy-p likes this.
  12. jy-p

    jy-p Sr. Member
    Organizer

    Jan 2, 2016
    133
    340
    Male
    It's more than a bit painful to know that the KYC/AML rules are non-existent for real estate in the US, but cryptocurrency is regulated to death.
     
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  13. nat

    nat New Member

    Jan 4, 2016
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    sysadmin
    NYC
    It does say everything - can't have the interests of the real estate developers threatened... *grumble*
     
  14. nat

    nat New Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    6
    4
    sysadmin
    NYC
    Btw, if any decredders in NYC want to arrange a face-to-face meetup then I'd be happy to do much of the legwork for organizing that. Feel free to DM me here.
     
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