Launch Testnet Stake Pool Is Live

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by tacotime, Feb 12, 2016.

  1. 2017/12/15 - Decred v1.1.2 released! → Release Notes  → Downloads
  1. sambiohazard

    sambiohazard Sr. Member

    Jan 21, 2016
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    WTF is wallet not showing my coins in change address after 5 confs? this is why i didn't try staking on mainnet, w/o coin control i feel lost. I hope you introduce someway of defining custom change address for sstx so my coin inputs are not fragmented.
     
  2. jolan

    jolan Sr. Member
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    Dec 7, 2015
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    Sent, transaction id: a75ca620b521c56649fcf21141ce4026f17eaa9f74303364e68d8d6911cd4631
     
  3. rohit pawar

    rohit pawar Member
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  4. jolan

    jolan Sr. Member
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    Now you wait for your ticket to be called upon to vote and wait for your subsidy to come in. There is no need to keep your wallet running -- that is the whole point of the stakepool, it votes for you.
     
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  5. rohit pawar

    rohit pawar Member
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    Dec 26, 2015
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    I think i recived my subsidy 8.90092468DCR which is showing in my wallet . Is that right ? .
    When will i get my locked DCR back ?
    Is there any way to see how much coins are locked at this point ?
    Where can i find tkt price ?
     
  6. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    #26 chappjc, Feb 12, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
    There's currently an issue opened to add an RPC call to view subsidy and produced votes. However, I don't think you got a subsidy yet, probably just change from the SSTX (ticket purchase).

    To list your tickets, like what is shown on the Stake Pool site, use gettickets.

    When I use --wallet listtransactions and --wallet gettransaction <transactionhash>, I see an amount and a fee, plus confirmations and other details. However, the output of --wallet getransaction confuses me as it indicates a crazy high fee (52.41191396 DCR) but the block explorer does not.

    You can use the hash you got in the previous commands or the stake pool page, and use getrawtransaction to compute the subsity, as described here by @davecgh. EDIT: Link added.
     
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  7. 44blox

    44blox New Member
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    Dec 17, 2015
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    so mining stake pool with 62mh/s works good versus 1ghs. And i have tickets on main net already worth 80 decred will they be in the main net stake pool? im trying to understand the tickets and stuff
     
  8. davecgh

    davecgh Hero Member
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    Stake "mining" doesn't need any hash power. Think of it a bit like interest on invested coins. You lock your coins for a period of time in order to purchase a ticket that gives you a high probability (>99%) of gaining voting rights and receiving interest in exchange for casting a voting and the opportunity cost of not being able to use those coins for potentially up to ~4.7 months.

    If you have already purchased stake tickets, those coins are locked until the tickets either win or expire. You are solo staking and therefore you MUST keep your wallet online 24/7 until all of your tickets have won (or expired) or you will miss out on the rewards since you can't cast a vote if you wallet is not online. Because those coins are now locked there is no way for you to change the already staked coins now.

    The stake pool, on the other hand, allows you to delegate your voting rights to the pool so it is responsible for being online 24/7 and casting your vote for you.
     
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  9. 44blox

    44blox New Member
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    Thanks now i understand, i will use the pool next time ;)
     
  10. Dyrk

    Dyrk Sr. Member
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    Jan 7, 2016
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    Based on this statement and this clarification from @davecgh I assume that decred now became even worse than bitcoin.
    PoS now is just another tool for manipulating the crowd. Most of the people always look for some profit, and now pools will decide which blocks to accept. Maybe even accept only blocks generated in one specific mining pool.

    So it was announced before like democracy feature, but in reality with these pools it's just a new tool for making money by small group of people.

    If you think that the next aim for developers should be restriction of possibility to delegate your vote (so no PoS pools anymore) to save decred, you know what to do: vote "nay" to every new block:
    Code:
    dcrwallet --enablestakemining --votebits=0 --balancetomaintain=0 --ticketmaxprice=5
     
    44blox likes this.
  11. chappjc

    chappjc Full Member
    Developer Pool Operator (PoS)

    Well, I misunderstood such statements for a while as meaning I can't restart my wallet or computer, unplug and plug my ethernet cable, lose power for 23 seconds, etc. But two things to keep in mind at this point:
    • You only need to have your wallet(s) online and unlocked when your ticket is called.
    • At this stage, that's not until at least block 4096. In general (after the bootstrapping phase), that's what? 8192 blocks after SSTX?
    @davecgh Please correct me if I'm wrong.
     
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  12. frankbraun

    frankbraun New Member

    Jan 18, 2016
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    Could somebody send me some coins on testnet to test the stake pool? Address: TsWqzgdvfbHkZGGeoPRMfhrtj8qrmzNrVEc
    Thanks!
     
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  13. davecgh

    davecgh Hero Member
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    I can appreciate that it may appear that way right now because things are still early, but your analysis is missing one of the key points mentioned on the test stake pool: "Per user voting selection is a feature that will be added shortly." Once that is enabled, you will be able to change your vote at any time prior to your ticket being called to vote on whatever you want to.

    Another thing that is technically possible through the use of clever scripting is the ability to revoke delegation of voting rights from a pool should they not abide by your wishes. Such capabilities will absolutely develop over time.

    Something that must be kept in mind is no system can start out perfectly decentralized no matter how much we all want it to. It simply isn't possible. There has to be a bootstrapping process to help the network along with a concerted and focused effort towards enabling and encouraging decentralization.

    The only way the system can decentralize is if more subsidy is emitted, so your suggestion of voting no on everything would actually make things worse because it would reduce the amount of new subsidy created thereby making it easier for larger stakeholders to manipulate things.

    For reference, here is a probability chart that shows the percent of tickets required to successfully invalidate any given block by a single stake holder. The smaller the individual stakeholder, the more secure the network:

    Code:
      Tickets Probability of Success
      50.00%  50%
      33.33%  20.9003974854%
      25.00%  10%
      20.00%  5.767307702%
      16.66%  3.578373978%
      14.29%  2.3359544176%
      12.50%  1.7234105717%
      11.11%  1.1054643087%
      10.00%  0.8442484549%
      5.00%  0.1233567638%
      2.50%  0.0122448147%
    
    As you can see, 20 stake pools controlling 5% each can have very little individual effect on the network, even if they weren't employing per-user voting in which case people should choose a pool that does anyways. The key is distribution of stake. Further, the coin supply within 2 years will be 4,671,950.62648767 in the best case -- almost 3 times what it is now, so I hope with all this you can see that the system design can fully deliver on its promise.

    So, I wholeheartedly disagree with you that it will be controlled by a small group of people manipulating the crowd. It simply requires a little more development to make it a full on democracy.

    That is true, but you never know when your ticket is going to be called since it's not forward deterministic . Therefore, for all intents and purposes, your wallet needs to be online and unlocked 24/7.
     
  14. davecgh

    davecgh Hero Member
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  15. ceejep

    ceejep Sr. Member
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    Dec 14, 2015
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    It's easy to understand why you might feel this way at first glance, but keep in mind that this is the genesis of the system. At this point it is incredibly fragile. In the best interest of the network, it must be kept stable for the initial run.

    For the pool software, we want to try to switch to Schnorr (secp256k1 or Ed25519) 2-of-2 multisignature OR one signature for voting as soon as possible. Aside from the size benefit, this type of signature is privacy preserving. With 2-of-2 multisignature, you can set up a Raspberry Pi that connects to the pool 24/7. When the pool tries to vote in this circumstance, it must first confer with you and you must examine the vote for validity. When you agree with their vote, you sign it. The OR one signature refers to the script allowing you to sign alone to produce a vote with your own public key if need be.

    This works even for multiple signers pooling together to cast a vote with multiple inputs. A Schnorr multisignature for any number n users uses just 64 bytes. It is the case now that daemons can run on the network on a Raspberry Pi, but in the future the Pi will struggle to keep up. We are seeing now on the Bitcoin network that because of the transaction volume, it is impossible for anyone without a powerful server to keep up as a node. This new model under Decred allows one to even participate in voting on the network from their mobile phones. This is something impossible under a pure Proof of Work system.

    There is a lot to develop and we are few, but we are working on it. The software that participates in voting must be extremely simple to run, portable, and simple. With a large userbase on diverse hardware, this is difficult to immediately achieve.
     
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  16. Blizzy

    Blizzy Full Member

    Jan 4, 2016
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    #36 Blizzy, Feb 12, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
    @davecgh I have my pos wallet running on vps so i hope it will be online 24/7 :)

    if i do this procedure described in the pos pool info:

    Code:
    To generate a public key address, create a new wallet address with 'getnewaddress'. Then, call 'validateaddress <yourAddress>' and retrieve the address listed in the 'pubkeyaddr' field of the response. It is prefixed Tk... for testnet or Dk... for mainnet.
    If I create a new address from my current pos wallet(the one is running on vps and already has buyed tickets) , if i send coin to that address (the new one generated) can my wallet both POS solo mining and POS pool mining with the 2 different address ?

    When that address has finished the founds for buying pos pool ticket, i can use it like the reward target from my pos solo until he is finished or when i want to buy some ticket i can send money on it..

    Do you think is a correct procedure?
     
  17. jy-p

    jy-p Sr. Member
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    Jan 2, 2016
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    I am surprised to see that you view stake pools as a threat to Decred. I view stake pools as a tool for including more users in the stake mining process.

    In an ideal world, everyone would run their own full node with a wallet that has stake mining enabled. The node and the wallet would be on a VPS, a VM, dedicated hardware, or some combination thereof. The node and wallet require 24/7 uptime and relatively low latency in order to ensure voting is successful. This would provide a lot of redundancy and make the network very decentralized. I assume you are already doing this yourself.

    Stake pools allow people who are either unable or unwilling to setup the configuration I describe above to participate in the stake mining process, making the stake mining process more accessible. People who live in areas with intermittent internet can safely participate in the process by having the stake pool vote their tickets whilst they are unavailable or offline. While I have a strong preference for everyone having their own standalone setup, I recognize that having this criteria for participation in the stake mining process drastically restricts the number of participants.

    We plan to open source the stake pool software in the near future so that others may setup similar redundant configurations. If you are capable of running a reliable full node with stake mining enabled, we encourage you to do so, with the caveat that you must stay online continuously for the next ~5 months to ensure your tickets are voted when they are called. If the uptime requirement above is too much of a commitment for you, we recommend using a stake pool once it is online.
     
    Scott Briggs likes this.
  18. rohit pawar

    rohit pawar Member
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    Dec 26, 2015
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    dcrctl --testnet -u xxx -P xxxx getrawtransaction 2ec5fa4e473f44bddd28b18453f21bac2644dbbbc6b3210140c5156aecd3c0a4 1


    {
    "hex": "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",
    "txid": "2ec5fa4e473f44bddd28b18453f21bac2644dbbbc6b3210140c5156aecd3c0a4",
    "version": 1,
    "locktime": 0,
    "expiry": 0,
    "vin": [
    {
    "txid": "a75ca620b521c56649fcf21141ce4026f17eaa9f74303364e68d8d6911cd4631",
    "vout": 0,
    "tree": 0,
    "sequence": 4294967295,
    "amountin": 3000000000,
    "blockheight": 10521,
    "blockindex": 1,
    "scriptSig": {
    "asm": "30440220793f5ce32aa3736d1bf218f95f5c475d4110a77a25788045185fe5f2a93b0dab022055a9ea06ab9474fe7ae63cc1d563e7135a480cab2199a761ee72f144643d2fb201 030b06e2ef60c7efad751db3cf46766d9635dfa2aa6bbc0c3039892a2828a71811",
    "hex": "4730440220793f5ce32aa3736d1bf218f95f5c475d4110a77a25788045185fe5f2a93b0dab022055a9ea06ab9474fe7ae63cc1d563e7135a480cab2199a761ee72f144643d2fb20121030b06e2ef60c7efad751db3cf46766d9635dfa2aa6bbc0c3039892a2828a71811"
    }
    }
    ],
    "vout": [
    {
    "value": 21.09906532,
    "n": 0,
    "version": 0,
    "scriptPubKey": {
    "asm": "OP_SSTX OP_HASH160 7b16ef276ab395f7830985e08a0012caaca403d7 OP_EQUAL",
    "hex": "baa9147b16ef276ab395f7830985e08a0012caaca403d787",
    "reqSigs": 1,
    "type": "stakesubmission",
    "addresses": [
    "TcijeddgA1GGUiknPwaLmEHgeSridhj6toS"
    ]
    }
    },
    {
    "value": 0,
    "n": 1,
    "version": 0,
    "scriptPubKey": {
    "asm": "OP_RETURN 14f484bcda57045e805d566dcb0811ec7377b8ef4ca2c27d000000000058",
    "hex": "6a1e14f484bcda57045e805d566dcb0811ec7377b8ef4ca2c27d000000000058",
    "type": "nulldata"
    }
    },
    {
    "value": 8.90092468,
    "n": 2,
    "version": 0,
    "scriptPubKey": {
    "asm": "OP_SSTXCHANGE OP_DUP OP_HASH160 767688cf55713eb6d74f5d0f4bbba3fd2eef3599 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
    "hex": "bd76a914767688cf55713eb6d74f5d0f4bbba3fd2eef359988ac",
    "reqSigs": 1,
    "type": "sstxchange",
    "addresses": [
    "TsbpWD7QredKZsSgyNZ4RDBZ942fQZCPQAx"
    ]
    }
    }
    ],
    "blockhash": "0000000001557942650f2fa26dce71ff03d65b0ef49eaaf106f0ac28fcd80ecb",
    "blockheight": 10523,
    "blockindex": 5,
    "confirmations": 85,
    "time": 1455312720,
    "blocktime": 1455312720
    }




    how to find tkt price ? as per ur reply in understanding PoS this is how me get tkt price right?
     
  19. davecgh

    davecgh Hero Member
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    rohit pawar likes this.
  20. mod

    mod New Member

    Dec 28, 2015
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    Can we utilize the online wallet when joining the pool to generate signature script for voting?
     

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